Combat and Art Styles

Pegging off Tobold’s post on appropriate art style, I think it bears mention more than just a couple games.  And I won’t really go into what looks better because that’s a very subjective argument.  This is really about the practicalities.

We have WoW art style, with distinct character outlines since the start. However it’s moved away from tab target to smart target, and red/blue markers on the ground. WoD will finally have target outlines as well. It’s evolved.

Neverwinter, a LAS/action game, uses outlines and AE effects given the mouselook aiming features. It’s a more realistic art style, making it damn near impossible to find someone in the thick of things. BUT, since it’s soft lock and AE for nearly everything (including healing), it works.

SWTOR uses cartoon style graphics for a seemingly endless supply of humanoids. I found it a mess in regular PvE but the group instances aren’t too bad as the character types are often different. Plus tab targeting helps drastically.

FF14 uses tab targets and a full skill bar, though in reality few skills. The art style is VERY unique and it’s fairly easy to spot individual players, let alone NPCs in combat. In fact, you rarely have more than 2-3 enemies at once. Of course, with a requirement for focused combat and targeted attacks, this is vital for success

FF14 - Ifrit

ESO is LAS + mouselook. Many attacks are AE or smart target. Every frigging enemy is the same though. PvP turned into meat walls of AE spam because you can’t focus target effectively. It also means many skills lose all value if they aren’t multi-target. Plus everyone blends in together and the background. So it’s less about aiming and responsiveness as it is about mashing AE attacks and hoping the numbers are in your favor.

Big Boy

Big Boy

Wildstar is LAS but tab/free target combat. Everything has an AE target as well, making aiming very important. Plus the character diversity helps you quickly ID the players in the field. The more quickly you can make an assessment, the better your odds.

That's a big gun

That’s a big gun

I guess it boils down to offense vs defense. A more realistic game favors defensive style of play and 2 types of skills. Either you spam and get lucky or you cross that skill gap to “elite” and run amok. FPS shooters I think show that well.

A more cartoon, or rather distinct character set, provides more offensive options as you can’t really hide. Everyone knows who you are and you have more information to make the right decision. It removes the skill gap and includes progression.

I wouldn’t be able to say which has the higher skill ceiling as that is more game-specific. It’s certainly an interesting topic.

#Wildstar – Old Community

Murf has a mass-market article on Gameranx.  It deals with the more familiar aspects to the launch of Wildstar and community.  Disclaimer – both Murf and I are on Evidra (in a guild run by overlord Liore), an RP server.  The type of player who knowingly selects an RP server is vastly different than a normal PvE or PvP server.  That said, I think the general rule applies.

My personal experiences echo those of Murf, in that by and large, the community is much more familiar and family-like than other games.  I’ve stated in a few places that Wildstar takes a social-first approach to nearly all aspects of the game.  You can certainly play alone but the experience is exponentially better with other people.  Challenges in particular, are run at a disadvantage if multiple people attempt them without grouping.  Each zone has 5-6 group quests, usually 2-3 people with an additional 5 member quest.  Grouping with random people also awards Renown, used as a currency for many customization features.  Grouping with 2+ guildies also gives you guild credits, which unlocks additional features.

The old community aspect is that the game is familiar enough in concept that people were able to transition somewhat easily from other games and if you have friends, you can actually play with them.  So that’s a direct contrast to say, ESO.  The fact that transition was so simple and intuitive, it allows for a much lower stress environment when it comes to questions and answers.  It also helps that there are few bugs, so frustration is also very low.  It makes for a much more enjoyable community.

I think it bears to mention that Wildstar’s skill level is a fair bit higher than the competition (as always, FF14 aside) and that as more and more people run adventures/dungeons, people looking for an easier ride will have to either reset their expectations or head to another game.  This is EXACTLY what FF14 did and from the numbers we can see that was a rather successful position to take.  I know I have personally died many, many times as a solo player.  Dungeons are challenging, not punishing.  I think my level 90 Monk died once while leveling, and that was from falling.  With a higher skill level, it means that people are a bit more focused on what’s going on.  That makes for a more involved player base, which is certainly positive.

#Wildstar – 2 Weeks In

By this point, I had a pretty good feeling for ESO but I waited til the end of the month. Will do the same here but wanted to post a quick update.

My Esper is 36. There are 2-3 people higher than me in the guild (Evindra-Exiles-Cats in Space) so I’ll venture to say I’m top of curve. It’s about the same rate as ESO and FF14, half as fast as TOR. I have spent an inordinate amount of time “goofing”. Exploring, crafting, little quests here and there, challenges. A fun dungeon runs, a few housing picnics (and a dungeon inside one!). There’s a ton to do and I am loving it all.

Catching some air.  Massive air.

Catching some air. Massive air.

I was in Farside, subzone 3.1 I guess. It’s the mini zone attached to the large moon (with 1/3 gravity no less) and was just astounded by the little details. Small nooks are full of fun stuff. Hidden ghosts, passed out gambling NPCs, giant snails making out, hidden sets of stairs. And the lore is just jam packed with juicy bits.  Farside is also an odd one as it’s made up of smaller zones.  Compared to Whitevale (just before) you’re only in each zone a couple hours.  Mind you, each has their fun components.  The 2nd zone (the sand biome) has a spider-man like challenge.  You can fall from the highest point while doing it and I spent a solid 45 minutes getting through.  That I tried for 45 and didn’t just move on, speaks a lot I think.

Syp's lot is pretty neat!

Syp’s lot is pretty neat!

Are there bugs? Ya, a few. I’ve only ever had to drop 1 quest though. A rare /reloadui fixes the rest. One bug happened in the world quest line, at ~35.  That took a bit of magic but the quest itself was impressive, so I didn’t mind redoing a fair chunk.  I think I could count the bugs on my hand actually, which is so vastly different from ESO, that they are like night and eclipse.

World Quest - just amazing art

World Quest – just amazing art

Housing.  I will have to make an entire post on housing.  Neighbors are easy to find and some people have been ultra creative.  Ryven found one piece of loot, not even at max size, that takes up 25% of his lot.  I’m adding pieces here and there, though I think I’m going to go for an underwater vibe – given my squirg headgear.  I like farming on other people’s land too, since you share resources.  It is so much more than I expected and extremely seamless.

I spend a lot of time smelling the roses. And doing that with other people too. That alone should speak volumes to what Carbine has been able to do here. I am continually impressed, even as a jaded vet.  I think, at the very foundational level, things just work and work smoothly.  It’s more or less intuitive.  There’s very little bullcrap that you have to put up with in order to have fun, which is a great change from more recent games (as I like to remind everyone, FF14 is the exception to all my MMO complaints!).

Oh, and I love Lopp.

#Wildstar – Combat Comparison

First off.  Ding 30!  Or rather, shabow, kabam, wazow! Guitar shred solo.  I know people find that part grating but you only see it 50 times during all your hours.  I can’t think of another interface you see less often. /meh

I’ve finally unlocked all my LAS slots.  Most of my skills.  I have some T4 skills too, which unlock additional effects on some attacks.  While 25 is the numeric middle point, I will say that 30 is the spiritual mid-point.  You have access to all types of content (except war plots and raids), have a solid understanding of your class, plenty of housing options, a lot of the tradeskills figured out and lots of combat experience.  Is good.

Of note, level 30 achieved after completing nearly every piece of content available to me.  Path, adventure, dungeon, main quest, side quest, challenge… you name it.  It’s wildly fun.  Housing rested experience is extremely useful – not only for the base 5%/10% buff but a night logged off there gives me about 30% of a level of rested.  DO EEET!

Wildstar vs the rest

Comparison posts are the best.  Especially since I like to work with allegories (social tick as well).  Truly, this post is coming from Shintar’s post on my Stormtalon video.

That video reminds me a lot of the boss fights I’ve been seeing in Neverwinter. How would you say the styles of those two games compare?

Excellent question!  To which I attempted to answer and realized it’s a bit more complex.  Wildstar is a combination of Guild Wars2 and Neverwinter.  The first game I couldn’t really get into (but others did!) and the latter which I invested heavily.  I’ll focus mainly on combat for this post.

For quick comparison, here’s a post to a NW boss fight.

Active Combat

Both games use a limited action bar, where you can only slot X amount of abilities at any given time.  GW2 limits this mostly to weapon types and traits (ugh) while Neverwinter really allows dynamic allocation.  You can slot pretty much any ability at any time, which is what Wildstar is about.  The hiccup here is that Wildstar uses a tried and true themepark stats model, so if you want to swap between DPS and Tank/Healer, you need a 2nd set of gear.  My Esper has, something like 12 bag slots of healing gear.  I’ll find a mod to help with that.

The action in combat is based on heavy movement.  GW2’s hilarious “roll everywhere” is partially present here but with a tank, there’s a bit more stability.  NW’s don’t stand in the fire and dance around is all over the place but the core difference is that the red stuff is not often in the shape of a circle.  Squares, rectangles, moving circles, shapes that grow or morph into other shapes.  You need to be paying attention.  Let’s just say you can’t multibox.

Where WS differs wildly from the former two is that it is global cooldown (GCD) locked.  GW2 & NW both rely heavily on cooldowns for abilities; you can’t just spam the most powerful attack.  WS instead allows you to use most any skill at any time but with a builder/finisher model.  The limit on skill usage is a GCD between skills (~1.5s), like other themeparks.  WoW’s model is only recently moving this way (think rogues, monks, paladins).

Role Focus

In many, many other games, the DPS are just dumb guns.  They stand and pew-pew, rarely move out of the way for anything and just focus damage everything they see.  I truly dislike this in WoW. GW2 has no roles, so let’s skip that.  NW has a tank/healer model but the tank does have issues keeping everything but the big-bad-guy on them.  Plus, all boss battles seem to follow the same model of summoning friends every ~30seconds.  DPS are required to take those down through skill lockdowns, which is generally fairly simple – especially with a Control Wizard.  DPS need to avoid damage but the healers have fairly simple tools to keep everyone up.  Bosses can rarely be interrupted, so it’s more about avoidance and lockdowns rather than timed attacks.

WS really has a focus on the trinity.  Tanks need to keep everyone on them as much as possible and usually have the skills to do so.  Healers are often left alone (in terms of threat) and can focus on keeping the tank alive.  They can heal DPS, if they are in range but their focus is always tank/healer.  DPS is a bit different here and more akin to NW or old-school WoW.  Focus fire, interrupts, stuns are really important.  Some bosses will wipe you if you don’t interrupt (and the need for multi-interrupts is another factor).  Traditionally CC doesn’t exist.  DPS also need to avoid all the red fire crap too, while doing the above.  If you look at the Stormtalon video, you can see that this isn’t super-obvious.  Movement from a DPS also means you’re often out of range of healing.  There’s a fair amount of pressure on the DPS and a rather higher skill level than almost any other game in recent memory (FF14 the exception).

Summary

My gut feeling is that the skill wall in WS is just holding the line on the skill wall issue.  Content (solo and group) is hard, requires a fair amount of attention from players and rewards smart play.  And that’s only the leveling content.  When’s the last time people died on a dungeon run in another MMO – again, FF14 aside?  I think that WS’ main benefit with this model is that if you train people, over the levels, to expect difficulty, you get better players at the end.

#Wildstar – Stormtalon Fight

I ended up in the first dungeon yesterday, Stormtalon’s Lair.  It is a fair bit different than other games in that the trash packs are not easy.  CC options don’t really exist, outside of quick stuns/interrupts, so you need to juggle a fair amount.  Plus, there’s a fairly large gap between the trash and boss fights.

Trash is more or less static combat.  You move to avoid some attacks, just like single player combat.  2-3 enemies at a time.  It’s fun enough.

Bosses though, wow.  Everything is moving all the time.  The video below is the first dungeon end boss – Stormtalon.  The bosses before that are somewhat similar but this guy, just crazy.  Of interesting note, I am thinking people will need to circle strafe AND click buttons.  You don’t just move to avoid damage, you constantly move to avoid damage.  So that means attacking while moving.  I have a mouse with quite a few buttons, so there’s something beneficial there.

As an Esper, a static playstyle is challenging.  As you’ll see in the video.  I mess up a fair amount but it works out.  Dungeons take about an hour.  I died on the first attempt to the boss and died about 4 times total on the map.

#Wildstar – Shmorgasboard of options

Let’s see if I can find the link.  I think it’s a fair assessment to compare GW2 to Wildstar in terms of content availability and options.  I know most people compare to WoW but really, from 1-max, the only thing you’re really doing is PvE leveling.  Crafting and dungeons are both, in my opinion, broken for people who level up. GW2 takes an approach of “do what you want”.

Wildstar gives you leveling through main quests, tasks, contests, open events, dungeons (hard!), and adventures (also hard!).  Crafting is actually relevant and multi-dependent on other streams.  In that I mean that if you were a leatherworker in other game, you would only need leather.  Here, you need leather and plants and cloth.  Grouping is also highly encouraged through not only guild “credits” which allow the guild to buy perks but also through renown, an additional currency to purchase customization options (housing, costumes, etc…).  And that’s not even talking about the Path quests (I took Scientist).

All that said it makes me feel like I have “dog with a puffy tail” syndrome.  I try to set myself goals when I play but darn if I don’t end up chasing rainbows all over the place.  An example.  I’ll be running a main quest in a part of the map.  I’ll likely find another quest from an item on the ground.  Or I’ll trigger a competition by finding an object, or killing some random enemy.  Or I’ll get a quest given to me over the communicator.  Or I’ll see my path icon which has me scan a bunch of stuff.  So what started out as a 1-2 quest initiative usually ends up as an actual dozen.

Off the beaten path

Off the beaten path

And that’s not even counting me looking at the map for additional harvesting nodes.  Oooh, a new node and I end up a bit further away from the core path and find more quests.  Then when I’m done all of that, I look at the map and see there’s a section I have not explored.  Or a point on the terrain that looks really cool.  I end up going there and 90% of the time, the cycle starts again.

The “neat” stuff is that crafting stations aren’t super common, so I don’t end up spending dozens of cycles making items.  Also, since item drops aren’t super common and I’m not actively farming materials, I can only make a few items at a time anyway.

Next up is running some adventures and dungeons.  They automatically set your level based on the event, so you can easily run stuff lower than your level (or above) if you want.  I’ve built a healer Esper, including AMPs but since play is based on damage, I need a 2nd set of gear in my bags.

Asmiroth.140602.223644

Back to the original GW2 comparison.  That game had the same effect, where you would more or less organically traverse the map finding new objectives.  The difference between the two is that GW2 had absolutely no story linking the stuff together (other than the personal story, 1 quest every 3-5 levels).  Wildstar takes a much more integrated story approach, at the hub, zone, map and entire faction perspective.  What I mean is that characters appear in multiple places, adding consistency.  WoW does this pretty well, especially after the Cataclysm patch.   It’s good, it makes you feel part of the story.

I am having a blast!

#Wildstar – Let’s Go

Success!  By luck of events, this weekend gave me good fortune to get a fair amount of time into the game.  And it would appear, that by and large, there were next to no server starts woes.  ESO was a good high bar and Wildstar is right on pace.  It does put other games into stark contrast when you think about it (Watch_Dogs, D3, SimCity, etc..).  In the age of the interwebs, you’d hope they’d get this part down and Carbine did a fine job.

So, with my name all nice and reserved, I made my Exile Human Esper Asmiroth on Evindra.  What a mouthful.  I decided to take a trip to Algoroc as a starting zone, which has a more wild west meet sci-fi vibe.  Rocky canyons, cliffs to climb and a secret robot base.

One fun quest was out in the middle of nowhere, with no breadcrumbs to get there.  Here’s a video.

I just hit 15 and got my house too, so the next little while I think is going to focus on my customization.  Until that time, here are some screencaps.

Rocket Man

Rocket Man

That's a big gun

That’s a big gun

Big bad robot

Big bad robot