Foundry – Back On The Shelf

I like experimental ideas and I’m supportive of devs trying something new. I’m back to the point I was in Foundry when I left a year ago, and have some thoughts on what Update 2 has brought. In short, they are an improvement over the prior version, but still need some time to cook.

General

There have been some QoL changes, mostly related to balancing recipe volumes. It is better. It still doesn’t support large scale, primarily due to stack sizes that are absolutely too low. Foundations stack to 200, it should be 1000. This becomes very obvious once you unlock Olumite (oil).

Recipes need a general rebalance of ingredients. Having a late game item require copper wire is dumb. You won’t have used copper wire for anything for a dozen hours by that point. You could build a dedicated offramp to build these weird one-offs, but the splitter/ramps/inserter size means you need to use about 500 foundation each time this happens. See prior point.

Research is too complicated and takes too long. For long stretches in the mid-game you will research something you will never build in order to unlock something you’ll build 1 of. Actually, it may take the right amount of time, just that you literally have nothing to do while it’s underway.

Elevators and bulk miners need some tweaks. Their throughputs are simply too low given their size. Good news is that mining base power management is generally improved. 5 Solar Panels + 10 Batteries will support 2 diggers.

Modular buildings are still a cool idea that is poorly executed. They take a pile of material to construct and take way too much power, and once built, generally can be turned off. They become visual achievements.

The Lava Caves and Firmarlite Sheet process is cool as an idea, but poorly executed. You can only place the massive buildings on open lava, which is not continuous. Think of it like connecting islands with foundation pieces and 2 belts (in and out). The production rates are so low that you need 16 of these buildings to choke a basic belt. If I could change the lava floor to make openings, just like water above, that fixes this.

Building robots (the end game ones) is still cool to see.

Galactic Market

There are two parts here.

  • Building Robots and Shipping them
    • Robots are unlocked through research. You have no idea what a robot is worth unless you did through a pile of menus.
    • Building them isn’t necessarily hard, but is also isn’t fun. Get an assembler, build robots, belt them to a shipping pad and put them in space.
    • Selling the robots is too complicated. You can simply sell on the market for a 30% loss, or invest in the incremental game (see lower) to unlock the possibility to sell them on a planet. Each planet requires a license and a dedicated ship.
  • Upgrading the Spaceport
    • This is an incremental, plain and simple. Build up 2 numbers (money + material), then press a button for a timer that adds 10% to some function.
    • To unlock some features you need to research them on the planet. Not clear why.
    • It is possible to make a mistake in an upgrade and I am not sure how to revert a choice (e.g. unlocking a useless planet, or upgrading the wrong thing).
    • The orbital laser is friggin’ cool! Wow!

Ok, I lied. There’s a 3rd thing that completely changes this game.

  • You can buy almost anything from the space station, with I think a half dozen things left over you can only construct on the planet.
  • In general, it is much cheaper to buy an item than to construct and then sell it.
  • On paper, and with a few spaceport investments, it appears entirely possible to have a factory built entirely on the concept of shipping down from space, building a complex robot, and turning a profit. This completely negates all mining and productivity bottlenecks, assuming your ships have the throughput required (each shipping pad has a built-in buffer).
  • I’ve yet to fully test this mind you. Nor do I actually want to. Nilaus has though!

In Summary

Foundry is really trying for some interesting bits here. If I take a step back, the concepts here are really quite something. The implementation needs some serious thinking. It’s a bit like when my kids drew animals from their imagination, super cool but not practical.

The devs have stated their next major update will focus on quality of life things, that’s good. Tweaking the ideas present so that they work together in a more streamlined fashion would be great for everyone.

I still recommend buying the game if you like the genre. There’s enough good ideas here to justify the price.

PWHL Finals

I’ve been more or less brought up in a hockey rink, it’s a safe space I guess. I wouldn’t call myself a team fan (mind you I do cheer for the Habs) as much as a hockey fan. When I’m unable to play, it doesn’t help my mental space. Hockey has brought a lot to my life – friendships, confidence, good habits, challenges, and thankfully a very small amount of injuries. I would guess most people who play team sports would say something similar. I’ve been fortunate enough to share that passion with my wife and girls, and better, coach them along the way. Since mid-August I’d guess there are maybe 30 days total that I haven’t spent in a rink.

One thing I take for granted is the sheer amount of hockey in Canada. It’s everywhere and often a more popular topic than the weather. The NHL is baked into our conscious, and the Stanley Cup runs take up hours of our lives. Young boys dream of making the big leagues (better chance of winning the lottery) so that they just play all the time. Girls… well they haven’t really had options other than a potential scholarship or maybe some smaller work in a European circuit. And truly, the hockey wasn’t very good compared to what men were able to showcase.

Last year the PWHL finally consolidated a bunch of disparate women’s leagues into a single North American circuit. 6 teams and maybe 80% of the top global talent. The league was announced and the puck dropped in less than 6 months, which is bonkers. We naturally bought season tickets.

Back to the point of me taking this for granted. The first game, the game was OK with a lot of women experiencing top caliber hockey for the first time. Wasn’t a good game by any stretch. But the kicker here is that when the home team scored, my wife and kids celebrated like it was uber-Christmas. It took that event for me to glimpse at the impact of that event. I won’t claim to fully understand it, just happy to experience their joy. So season ticket holders we remain, and it’s frigging awesome to just be around happy people!

In the year’s I’ve been involved in women’s hockey, I’ve seen it grow by leaps and bounds. The girls starting when the U18s were leaving are significantly better hockey players, due to a wide range of factors. Better coaching, ice time, development, equipment, visibility, stigma, you name it, all of it factors into this.

What is means it that the professional game on the ice today is also getting better. Last year was very hodge podge, where there were 3 or 4 elite players and then arguably ‘filler’ per team. This year, the talent gap still remains but the skaters have figured out how to apply systems to defend against the opponent’s elite players. The end result is that this year’s product is substantially better than last year’s. It’s unfair to compare to men’s hockey which has had frankly a hundred years to figure their stuff out, so I’ll avoid that. If you understand hockey, you can draw your own comparisons.

So for now, I get to watch some quality hockey and moreso get to watch my wife and kids have near permanent smiles getting to build their own hockey stars that look like them. It’s really cool to share, and makes me appreciate things even more.

Foundry – A Little Bit More

The best games are nefarious and subtle. They start simple and straightforward, gradually adding complexity without it being obvious, and then at some point you’re an omnipotent god juggling fine pieces of art surrounded by a chorus of followers. Like that. Think about Minecraft. The first 15 minutes you played had you punching trees and dying to zombies once the sun went down. By the end, it’s redstone everywhere and you’re shooting a nether dragon.

Production games are about making numbers go up, and each step is more complex than the last. There’s an art to progression here, where you go from ore to ingots to plates to engines to robots to spaceships, and each step naturally flows into the next. At no point should you ask yourself ‘what’s next?’ as the factory must grow.

Foundry’s early game manages this well enough, up until you hit the steel tier. Before that point, you have 5 possible inputs to sort out and can find a way to bus it and manage crafting. It’s all smelters, crushers and assemblers. Straightforward enough and there’s always something to do.

The steel tier though, that’s where it gets complicated. Making steel required a very long belt (compared to what you have) to weave different materials and then put it on the bus, not necessarily more complicated just longer to set up. Concrete + Steam is in that tier, and now you need pipes and 3 new types of buildings that use water inputs. To get to the concrete step you need to build another mini-bus due to the conflicting materials, and eventually glass production. This is complicated, because instead of extending your main bus (and what you know), you need to build a second one, so that it doesn’t conflict with the main one. It’s a weird step back and sideways, rather than forward.

And then we get to Lava Caves / Elevators. The voxel world typically has you start the game at 150 units of height. Lava Caves are at 0. To get there you need to put an elevator and there are 2 types. One for you, one for freight, and they operate differently. The personal elevator has you select the depth, and can only dig through certain material. If you hit a single rock you need to manually remove it, and potentially don’t have the research unlocked to do so. Eventually through manual digging you reach the ground floor. The freight elevator is placed with a top (at +150) and a bottom (at 0) and it will self-connect if there are no rocks. If there are, you need to use the personal elevator to find them. This is still a baffling design choice to me. When it’s all working it’s really cool, but getting there is pure friction.

The Galactic Trade system changed a lot of the flow of the game, with a sort of side game of making literal spreadsheet numbers go up. I’ll have more on this in a bit, but it’s a significant break in game flow and an actual impediment to progress as Firmarlite (that 2nd R irks me) Bars are kept behind this mechanic. You need those for green research and access to the mid-game+.

This is a negative take on an experimental game, that comes from oodles of time spent in more mature and polished titles. I can emphatically say that Update 2 is miles better than what came before (belts and pipes for sure) and it’s clear there’s still a long ways to go. Pacing, tooling, and friction points are notoriously hard to balance, and exceptionally so if you have dev tools to skip pieces. I am really looking forward to testing more of the experimental components, there’s so much potential here.

Foundry – Update 2

Foundry hit EA about a year ago, I gave it a shot then. It is a 3D procedurally generated world, built on voxels (key point, that), that experimented with some ideas. Right up until mid-game, the idea of a mega bus remained practical. You could build mega structures in pieces, and finally robots along assembly lines. It felt a bit like Lego, where you could see the potential but were missing a few bricks.

My gripes then were about powering mining bases (high/low voltage stuff is way too complicated), and throughput logisitics are essentially capped due to lack of trains (or their equivalents), making a mega bus effectively starve itself. You couldn’t effectively ‘make numbers go up’ beyond a certain point.

Update 2 Notes

Last fall the devs surveyed folks for what they wanted to see on the roadmap. Top of list was production-related changes, balances, and similar items. They did want to see a greater expansion of the robot production chains! So we got Galactic Markets, which apparently is a system that allows you to sell your robots to space folks. From the patch notes, my selection of highlights:

  • Added Galactic Commerce:
    • New Galaxy map:
      • Procedurally generated galaxy on each fresh game start.
      • Unlock galactic sectors and acquire trade licences to sell your robots to planets.
      • Set up and manage supply routes between planets to distribute your robots.
      • Buy and sell resources on the galactic market.
      • Compete for market dominance against other companies. (Hoping this is not PvE for markets)
    • New Space Station Features:
      • Dozens of new station upgrades.
      • Spaceship Management: Buy spaceships of different types and assign them to various tasks.
      • Establish trade routes to the galactic market.
      • Sales Platform: Sell your products to casual customers.
      • R&D Lab: Earn XP and levels on each produced robot and improve your products.
      • Fuel Station: Produce your own spaceship fuel to supply your spaceships instead of buying it from the market.
    • Many new robot types for you to build and sell.
    • Choose your company name and logo.
    • New Company Rank system: Increase your rank based on your lifetime earnings.
    • New Shipping pad buildings to ship items between the space station and the planet.
    • New station terminal building to contact the space station.
    • Keep track of your finances on various accounting-related charts and tables.
    • New feature that allows you to pay back your debts.
    • New research options to fit the commerce narrative.
    • Countless balancing adjustments.
  • Pipe system 2.0: New and improved pipe flow simulation, including performance improvements. (I liked the old pipe system, anything to avoid Satisfactory’s version)
  • Added new smart conveyor drag mode. (It’s much improved)
  • Added new starting planet option which affects which biome and resource distribution. (This seems like a bad use of dev time. More later…)
  • Added orbital uplink tool and space laser that can be used to terraform large areas.
  • Added lava caves and lava smelters. (Caves in general are neat in concept, not neat in execution)
  • Added new Tundra biome.
  • Added new jungle/sandy desert/forest critters.
  • Added new underwater decor/vegetation.
  • Add new freight elevator III/IV. (This is a massive improvement)
  • Incompatible with prior saves, meaning a fresh start is required.

Trade Interface

There really isn’t much here to be honest. You get a new building early on that enables shipping of material to the space station (this building doesn’t require inserters or power, which speaks volumes to game design choices), which makes a number go up. The space station itself has no interaction outside of a menu. What the dev stream has shown seems like a precursor to something larger, which still seems like on the edge of potential.

I am in the early portions, just having unlocked green science. Maybe there’s more to this.

Overall Thoughts

On the one hand, cool that there’s new systems and very curious as to how this will work out long term. It’s weird building end-game systems and asking every player to sink 20 hours to actually test it, but hey, that’s EA I guess. I’m looking forward to a much different set of goals to try out.

On another, there are some core balancing issues that still seem present. Great to see Freight Elevator improvements on throughput, because splitters and multiple elevators was a pain – there are no other vertical belt options. The game still keeps splitters behind alternate research paths (this feels QoL to me), the 3rd row inserter is way too late in the tree (on the edge of QoL and bad design), and power management still feels painful until you build acres of solar panels (there wasn’t occlusion before, so a tower of panels actually works).

Games like this need effective logistics… there’s still a fair chunk of work needed. Some interesting ideas here, but there’s still a ton of rough edges and strange mechanics. I remain hopeful they can figure this out and deliver it in a reasonable timeframe.

Clair Obscur – Pt 2

If the first post was a ‘you should go and buy this’ post, this one is a bit more in mechanical, and likely more niche as a result.

RPGs make or break on two core aspects. The story itself needs to be engaging and relatively well thought out. The details matter. Veilguard is a good example where this part didn’t work. The second is the mechanical portion, where you actively engage in the world. Mosf often through combat. This is where SW: Outlaws had serious challenges. Also hard to balance.

Clair Obscur hits both of these well out of the park. Note that I speak French, a huge plus to my enjoyment.

The story rather succinct and each zone is relatively unique and never overstays. It’s a game where grief is the villain, not a particular person, which is always an achievement in storytelling. It may have the best soundtrack in the past 10+ years – earworms a plenty. The end of act 2 is a fascinating act of setup and payoff. The end of act 3 is the only time I can recall actually stopping to think about the right choice to make – simply from a story perspective. There are no weird logical gaps, everything has purpose and meaning. It’s a very satisfying experience to be part of the unfolding story, and one where you as a person come out reflective for the broader meaning.

This is the boss track for the end of act 2. There are dozens of this quality.

The combat portion is the balance of three distinct systems. The actual tactical portion of pressing buttons to avoid/retaliate to incoming damage requires a significant amount of attention (which can actually be exhausting) and so extra rewarding when you pull it off. The skill mixes and cadence between the player buffs/debuffs and skill systems is wild to me, a more simplistic version of BG3 where one character’s actions impact the next, allowing for some strategic elements. Finally the picto/lumina passive skill system feels straight out of FF7/9 in both the simplicity (equip it, win 4 fights, everyone has access) to the complexity (how to find synergies between passive boosts that fit a character’s playstyle). Going from 5k damage in one moment, to 5m the next is a crazy fun feat and why I love RPGs. Break the math.

I’ve now completed all the pieces where I feel a ‘need’ to complete. There are 2 other late game parts I can tackle (they are still red gates, indicating higher difficulty) that I’m partially through, and are distinctly in the ‘want’ category. The mechanical portion doesn’t interest me here, the story does, which I think speaks volumes to the remainder of the game.

It’s going to take a bit for my brain to adjust to normal games after this. What an amazing achievement.

Dyson Sphere Program – Stack Logistics

Stack logistics are a super interesting problem to solve, very analogous to real world logistic issues. It boils down to how of much of a thing can be shipped in the same space between locations. Compression ratios are another way to look at this. Real world, it is easier to ship aluminum powder in bulk than it is to ship aluminum boxes, due the stack size of the objects. Stack sizes in game relate to how much of an item can be stored in 1 inventory location, or on a given belt, are are up to the designer to decide. Maybe you can stack 100 of an item, maybe only 1. The why of it is interesting.

Knowing what the limit is of a stack impacts a lot of decisions, in particular in the amount of items required in it’s production path.

  • Iron Ingots require 1 Iron Ore. They each stack to 100. No difference.
  • Energetic Graphite requires 2 coal. Each stacks to 100. It is 100% more efficient to ship the graphite than the coal. Coal is used for other things unfortunately, so you will still need to ship it.
  • Carbon Nanotubes require 6 stalagmites. Nanotubes stack to 100, stalagmites to 50. That is 12x more efficient. Stalagmites are not used for anything else, therefore you never want to ship stalagmites.

Understanding these bottlenecks can also determine if you want to create a mini-factory or ship to a planet factory. Something like Blue Science stacks to 200, which has a 10x+ efficiency rating for shipping.

In the simplest of phases, you only ever need to ship raw material (except stalagmites, titanium ore and silicon ore which should be refined first), and then distribute to a main factory. You can reach rather stable throughputs in a somewhat straightforward 1:1 ratio of interplanetary logistics station between planets.

If you want to complete a Dyson Sphere in less than 12 hours though… you’re going to need a different model where you have multiple raw-material dedicated input stations that then distribute material out to the factory. This will require about a dozen planetary mining operations to sustain. I’ve done this before and after Dark Fog. I can attest that is sucks big time with Dark Fog on.

Stack Inserters + Pilers

DSP (and Factorio) enable stacking material, which adds a base compression ratio. 4 stacks of items in DSP is a big deal, in particular when dealing with bulk base materials like ore + plates. In a large scale factory, upgrading a producing building (e.g. a smelter) to higher production rates means more items out per minute, which will likely oversaturate a belt, causing a slew of production issues. Choice #1, build more belts – unlikely as you are limited in the inputs at the destination. Choice #2, don’t upgrade and simply build a new production chain – this is actually super valid and as long as you have space to build, way more efficient. Choice #3, use pilers to create stacks which quadruple the amount possible on a belt – the best option when you are space constrained, which is likely the case by the time this problem presents itself.

Side note: this particular concept is an interesting result of the math not mathing. Factorio vanilla didn’t need this as it was dirt cheap to simply build a new belt lane with infinite build space and rather low througput. Space Age though… legendary buildings + mods on Vulcanus change your throughput rates by a factor of 5-10. More belts won’t fix that and stack inserters become mandatory. Satisfactory should have this, it would save massive builds with 70 odd belts of the same material going everywhere. And don’t get me started on fluids… that system is infuriating.

Rate Limits on Transport

If you consider real world implications, a courier, a truck, a train, and a ship have different throughput rates. A courier is the fastest but can only carry a very small amount. A truck will be faster and more precise, but can only carry 1 load to a destination. A train can carry more, but takes longer and is less accurate (it needs a train station after all), but can carry 100+ loads. A ship takes weeks to complete a shipment, can only distribute to ports, but can transport thousands of loads in a single run. And that assumes there’s a truck/train/ship available when you need it.

DSP has 4 modes of transport as well. Drones, belts, intra and inter planetary ships, which follow a similar construct as the real world. Factorio goes bots, belts, trains, ships. Satisfactory is dimensional depots, drones, belts, trains.

If you only need a few items at a time, the lower rate / higher speed options are fine. Sometimes it’s so complicated that while math says belts may be best, having a saturation of drones is actually easier as the complexity of the network is too much to overcome. Gleba in Factorio comes to mind, with spoilage coming from dozens of locations.

Interesting note for DSP is that hub distribution limits do exist. Interplanetary hubs can hold 100 intra and 10 inter planetary ships. Intra ships can move 200 items each (so 20,000 items total) and inter ships can move 2,000 (also 20,000 items total). The distance each of these ships travels is key, one stays on the planet and one goes between them…so in nearly all cases they are emptied faster than they are filled. To offset this limit, you need to build multiple hubs for the same material, then group them. A full factory planet that is optimized will likely have 5 or more hubs dedicated entirely to iron ore, and the intra ships can pick from any of them to fulfill their needs.

DSP also has a fair amount of customization in terms of grouping + prioritization, which helps dramatically with optimization. The totality of the game space (meaning all system + planets) have more tools here to effectively distribute items that Factorio does (primarily due to rocket limitations in Space Age). It’s also looks friggin’ amazing to have a planet factory running.

This never gets old.

Dyson Sphere Program – Toe Dip

DSP has a special place in my brain. It’s hard to properly describe how friggin’ cool it is to build an actual Dyson Sphere! All factory games make numbers go up, but the actual end goal is a relatively downer. Factorio gives a ‘game complete’ screen when you fly to a planet, something you’ve done 5 times before – even in the vanilla days it was about sending a rocket. An actual meaningful goal that isn’t found elsewhere is impressive.

The end goal is amazing, but is the journey there still fun? That’s the question.

A bit more than a year ago, Dark Fog launched, which brought PvE combat to the game. The planet-based combat is decent enough, though I still question the amount of ‘trash loot’ that results from it all. The inability to destroy things in game is still an annoyance to me. Space PvE combat is still quite bad, and long-term space-faring objectives suffer from it. I opted to start over without Dark Fog, and that means that around 1/4 of the research in the game is useless. It also removes a lot of the early game friction.

The lack of PvE and amount of game experience means that the game itself has some rather serious pacing issues. It takes about an hour to build a main bus, with the main gap related to getting foundations to fill in water holes. Once you have that running, it’s a very small step to move into red/yellow research using oil. That opens up around 80% of all research in game, nearly up to the point of actually building the Dyson Sphere proper. You’re effectively rate limited on research based on oil extraction math, and then rate limited based on green engines which open up interplanetary logistics.

What’s interesting about DSP is that each planet is the same size, and the layouts differ based on latitude (less room on the poles). You’re never placed into a position where space is a challenge (building vertically is damn cool), only throughput. Where Factorio allows you to effectively brute force base material production to fill a bus, DSP’s bus is actually made of intermediary materials which can be much more complicated to make en-masse. Making something in bulk in Factorio usually isn’t terribly painful, as you can make a dedicated factory for it. DSP not so much, if you need end-item bulk items, it has thousands of base material requirements which is much more like a pyramid of production than distinct chains. A late game factory planet will have 200 iron plate factories – that never exists in Factorio.

By not having Dark Fog at all, I will not be able to unlock the Mk4 Assembler (100% boost on Mk3) or Mk3 Foundry (50% boost on Mk2). I have completed this game nearly 10 times now, and not once was this ever an issue. Throughput and power are. It is a much more difficult thing getting enough iron to a factory planet than it is to have enough machines to smelt it. It is possible, and honestly a terrible idea for 99% of the game, to terraform an entire planet and dedicate it to only base foundries (iron, copper, glass, stone, coal). More on that in a future post.

Which brings me to blueprints and more specifically, force builds. Blueprints are all but needed in Factorio as the small factories can be terribly complex. DSP is more about scale, repeating the same pattern dozens and dozens of times. Factorio implemented ‘force build’, which means that it will remove whatever is there and place the new blueprint. DSP does not have this – if there’s a conflict, the blueprint won’t work. That means that DSP blueprints are either very small (1 building and connectors) or very large (a full factory on a blank canvas that has been paved), and you’ll need to make connections to the rest of the plant. Reminds me a bit of Satisfactory’s blueprint limitations – where scaling is in the middle of DSP + Factorio.

Side note: Satisfactory’s main bus is ridiculously large because you can’t pre-fab buildings. Factorio’s main bus is extra long to support multiple mini factories. DSP’s main bus has about 15 things on it because you can in fact pre-fab buildings, but on the other hand, there are nearly 60 buildings you can construct and need to store. With Dark Fog, the main bus can wrap half of a planet.

A reminder that DSP follows some rather straightforward phases:

  • Initial Landing + automation
  • Main bus + blue science
  • Red science (oil)
  • Yellow science (titanium + silicone)
  • Planet factory + logistics
  • Purple + Green science
  • Dyson Sphere construction
  • Photons + end game

Right now, I’ve completed the yellow science phase. I’ve got research queued for a while, and trying to set up my Deuterium ring on the lava planet. Next up is a battery charging station on the lava planet, which will allow the ice planet to slowly transform into the main production hub. Power is always a challenge on that ice planet… there is a massive gap between the later phases and therefore essential to scale growth over time. It will be interesting to see how I can make blueprints work in my favor this pass.